Why All Porn is Gay
http://harekrishnadiary.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-all-porn-is-gay.html
Why All Porn is Gay
By Henry Makow Ph.D.
In 2004, a woman revealed details of Hugh Hefner’s sex life.
If the Playboy founder is any indication, a life dedicated to porn and promiscuity leads to homosexuality and impotence. The 60′s icon of suave masculinity is, in old age, a grotesque self-parody.
Hefner, 82, pays a bevy of whores $2000 a week to be his girlfriends and have sex with him every Wednesday and Friday. He uses Viagra and watches male gay porn to stay erect while as many as ten concubines mount him in succession. The other girls simulate lesbian sex to arouse him.
“He doesn’t really do anything,” says Jill Anne Spaulding, author of the book “Upstairs.” He just lies there with his Viagra erection. It’s just a fake erection, and each girl gets on top of him for two minutes while the girls in the background try to keep him excited. They’ll yell things like, “F-k her daddy, f-k her daddy!” There’s a lot of cheerleader going on!”
No one becomes a playmate without having intercourse with Hefner. The “girl next door” is now a whore; and Hefner’s maudlin example of arrested development is a fitting epitaph for his Playboy Philosophy.
Playboy was not a spontaneous phenomenon. It was social engineering designed to foster homosexuality and family breakdown. See my “Playboy and the (Homo) Sexual Revolution.” This is why Spaulding’s revelations got so little publicity.
DEFINING HOMOSEXUAL AND HETEROSEXUAL
The “establishment” agenda is to destabilize and neuter us by encouraging homosexual behavior. This ensures we don’t propagate since homosexuals have sex but don’t have children.
They redefine “homosexual” as a “sexual preference” or “lifestyle choice” rather than a developmental disorder so as to entrap us. Never mind that the vast majority of homosexuals come from dysfunctional families or suffered sexual abuse as youths. Our reluctance to embrace homosexuality is considered “bigotry.”
In response, let’s take liberties with these definitions ourselves. Having the right paradigm is the key to healthy behavior.
Forget about what you normally think of gay or straight (same-sex , opposite sex attraction etc.) Think of heterosexuality as monogamous and dedicated to rearing children; homosexuality as promiscuous and concerned with sex for its own sake.
Heterosexuality involves bonding permanently with a member of the opposite sex for love and usually procreation. It is participating in the natural life cycle, in the intrinsic meaning of life. Personal and societal health depend on heterosexuality.
Homosexuality is a form of arrested development caused by an inability to form a heterosexual bond. As a result, homosexuals compensate using sex as a surrogate for love.
In these terms, society has become more homosexual because, due to social engineering (i.e. the “sexual revolution,” feminism) many heterosexuals now fail to permanently bond. Normally, happily married heterosexuals can put sex in perspective and move on to more important things.
A perceptive reader recently wrote me: “If heterosexual sex outside of marriage is acceptable, if we eliminate the procreative aspect from sex, are heterosexuals any different from homosexuals in regards to the sexual activity?”
Exactly. I know these definitions are not “politically correct.” PC is propaganda, social engineering and mind control. PC is an old Communist Party (i.e. Illuminati) term.
I do not disparage gays. According to my definitions, the vast majority of homosexuals are really “heterosexuals” like Hugh Hefner. And a small minority of homosexuals are monogamous and partake in some heterosexual values.
HOW SEX BECAME AN ACT OF HATE
Last year I wrote: “Throughout modern history Illuminati bankers have used “sexual liberation” to subvert society and establish their subtle tyranny. As Masonic revolutionary Giuseppe Mazzini said, “we corrupt in order to rule.”
The Illuminati bankers need to introduce “world government” to translate their unjust monopoly over credit into total world control.
They realized that they couldn’t take control until they destroyed the family. This was a main plank of the Communist Manifesto in 1848, along with the creation of a private central bank.
Every major “revolution” in modern history has increased Illuminati banker control and the sexual revolution is no exception.
The Illuminati used Hugh Hefner’s “Playboy” to divorce sex from love, marriage and family. They own the major cartels and control the media through advertising.
The movies are very effective in fostering homosexuality. Sex is often something reserved for your enemies. Recently I saw “Dr. No” (1962) again. The fashionable James Bond has sex with a woman even after he realizes she is involved in an attempt to kill him. After they have sex, Bond has her imprisoned.
In the movie Munich (2006), the Israeli assassins confront an attractive woman who killed their colleague. She displays her goods and suggests her death would be “a waste of talent.” She thinks they might have sex with a woman they intend to kill.
Human beings are malleable and take their standards from movies. There is nothing so destructive to human society as the separation of sex and love. It reduces men to dogs, and women to fire hydrants.
The Illuminati wishes to harness sex in the interests of hate. Love is the enemy of hate and must be destroyed.
ALL PORN IS GAY
According to our definition of homosexuality, (i.e. promiscuity outside of love and/or procreation), all pornography is gay. The porn consumer is engaged in a promiscuous masturbatory fantasy. He is not focused on his marriage and progeny.
From what I have said, it should be clear that homosexuality is incompatible with heterosexuality, just as promiscuity is incompatible with monogamy. Gay activists admit their goal is to destroy heterosexuality.
Pornography is poisoning heterosexuality. There is a place for tasteful nudity as a stopgap while seeking marriage.
(See my “Managing the Male Sex Drive” ) But as you know, pornography has reached epidemic proportions. “Adult Video News” predicts revenue of $12.6 billion this year. The Internet has literally thousands of porn sites. TV and pop music increasingly are pornographic.
Pornography warps the way a man sees all women and girls. Many sites include girls as young as 14. See “Erototoxins”
Young females think they are useful for one thing only. Thousands in the porn industry display what everyone has instead of cultivating what is rare and valuable: femininity.
I hate to burst the bubble on a billion dollar industry: Young naked women are practically identical. They have identical equipment. Boobs and bush. Symmetrical faces. Do men need to see literally thousands of examples?
There is something addictive here. Why don’t men get sick of it? Why don’t they suffer from gynecologist’s fatigue? The plethora of breasts and splayed legs takes the wonder out of sex and causes contempt for women and impotence. Maybe this is the point: new drugs keep people running on empty. (See “The Porn Pharma Complex”)
Sexual attraction is mostly a function of a woman’s fertility. Women are designed to marry and procreate when they are young and most attractive. Marriage ensured that men would have to commit if they wanted sex. By undermining marriage, occult social engineers have turned a critical social and reproductive activity into a lifetime obsession, better to divert, degrade and control the masses.
FINALLY
We were not prepared for the attack on our humanity by “sexual liberation” and porn. We didn’t know our leadership had been subverted by the Illuminati.
Marriage and family are the essential building blocks of society. Family ensures that each new generation is properly nurtured and prepared for life.
Most people receive values, purpose, identity and love from their family roles.
Heterosexuality provides life with profound meaning. There is no greater potential for love than marriage and parenthood.
Raising a child is the supreme act of devotion and faith in God and is practiced and tested every day.
Homosexual social engineering is gradually destroying these sources of happiness and health, personal and societal.
It’s fine to argue that pornography, especially heterosexual male focused pornography, degrades and objectifies women, and that popular movies often portray an incredibly stupid view of human sexuality. This, however, has nothing to do with homosexuality, which is an attraction and orientation that one is born with, is unchangeable, and is neither negative or positive in and of itself, any more than having blue or brown eyes, or pale or brown skin, matters. A very large number of gay and lesbian couples do form committed lifelong relationships, do raise children (either through adoption, fostering, or of their own), and do contribute to society through religious involvement, charity, volunteering, and neighborhood involvement. Many gay and lesbian couples do a much better job at parenting than their heterosexual counterparts. Many gays and lesbians are neither more nor less promiscuous than exclusively heterosexually-oriented men and women. There are plenty of valid complaints to be made about pornography and the objectified sexual portrayal of women in current culture, but hetero pornography is not about “converting” anyone to homosexuality, it’s about creating compulsions in people that cause them to spend their money to economically benefit the pornographers. What’s worse is, it’s incredibly hard to understand how this sort of hate-filled gay-bashing could cause anyone to be attracted to Krishna or the sankirtan message of Lord Chaitanya. Hare Krsna.
i can’t believe this hate-filled drivel ended up on planetiskcon.com. that’s it for me. never going to that site again.
Prabhupada: That is not enjoyment. Just like sex indulgence. If you indulge in more than necessary, then you will be impotent. Nature will stop. You know impotency? That will be there. Impotency. This homosex is also another sign of impotency. They do not feel sex impulse to woman. They feel sex impulse in man. That means he is impotent. It is impotency. So things are coming so rubbish now. This is the time for preaching our program, standard. Then?
Nitai: “For example, marriage, or the combination of a man with a woman, is necessary for progeny, but it is not meant for sense enjoyment.”
Prabhupada: Now this progeny is bother. It is sense enjoyment, homosex. Progeny, they don’t want. They’re not interested. Only sense gratification. This is another sign of impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex. This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Arrival — Chicago, July 3, 1975
Brahmananda: Actually you’re supposed to see other women as mother.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: But not one’s own wife.
Prabhupada: No. Para-daresu. Matravat para-daresu. That is the injunction of the sas… Other’s wife. Not that “Oh, my wife is also my mother.” Just see. This lunacy is going on, and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.
Brahmananda: They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America, homosex.
Prabhupada: Yes. The churches accept. It is already law.
Nitai: This women’s liberation movement, the leaders are also homosexual. They’re lesbians.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Just see. Hare Krsna. The whole world is on the verge of ruination. Kali-yuga. [break]
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk — September 6, 1975, Vrndavana
Pandu, you really have a lot of liberals visiting your site.
Anyway, this article makes a humorous point that pornography and promiscuity ultimately lead to impotency. Hugh Hufner isn’t such a big masculine man, after all, it seems.
As for sparky’s comment, can I ask you a question? What about this article do you find to be “hateful”? How is promoting moral values “hateful”? It is the liberals who are full of hate. They are the ones who want to secularize and demonize religion, who want to brainwash us that homosexuality is an acceptable choice, and that feminism is okay, that it is okay for women to be independent and promiscuous.
I realized long ago that liberalism is a mental illness that causes us to see everything backwards, or opposite, i.e Love is Hate, War is Peace, Slavery is Freedom, etc.
Pandu… I think you’ve got some issues. You’re being a bit too transparent here.
Eric, If you have something to say, then say it. I don’t care for the innuendo.
I posted this article because I thought it closely resembled and elaborated upon Srila Prabhupada’s teachings on the subject, and put porn and homosexuality in an interesting perspective. I don’t know what ‘issues’ you think I have.
You’re totally right. Srila Prabhupada would often go off on long, uninspired rants about the illuminati.
No wait, he never mentioned them once.
You can’t change the definition of a word to prove your argument. You also can’t bring the Illuminati into it and expect to be taken even a little tiny bit seriously.
I don’t get into conspiracy theories, and I almost added a disclaimer saying that I don’t know anything about an “illuminati,” but I thought it was too minor a part of the article.
In fact, many people take the Illuminati very seriously. I noticed a while back on youtube, that hare krishna videos that had the word “illuminati” in their titles had about a hundred times more views than similar videos without it.
As far as I’m concerned, the point here was to support Srila Prabhupada’s instruction that too much interest in sex robs men of their masculinity. He also said that the “women’s liberation” movement was a plot by men to make free prostitutes (I’d supply a quote but I’m on my phone now), which would fit very well into the illuminati theory. Like I said though, I’ve never had much interest in conspiracy theories. I think I’ve spent all of about an hour of my life exploring them.
thank you all so very much for these “undbelievably” enlightening articles… drivel like this in the guise of spreading Srila Prabhupada’s mission makes me want to jump ship and become a mormon… thanks ISKCON for yet again painting this philosophy in the most ridiculously irrelevent light imaginable… hey, why don’t we talk about how the Earth is flat next time…??? “this book is a mirror. when a monkey looks in no genius looks out.”
Jaya Radhe
Corey, I have read your writings, and I hesitate to even get into a conversation with you, because it invariably ends with you threatening me with violence, etc. I would just say that I am a liberal and very spiritual person. You’ve no idea what you’re talking about. I know plenty of people like me, since I attended seminary with many of what you call “mentally ill” liberals. They were all about social justice…feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, accepting those who are marginalized, fighting for equality in all arenas of society, hosting female prisoners, trying to offer them some friendship and spiritual comfort, and the list goes on. If you’d crawl out of your hole and actually try to experience something that is outside your beloved ISKCON, you might find yourself “trapped” in some “maya” that’s actually full of love and fellowship.
As for this porn issue…yes, this article is hateful. It plays upon the fears of the ignorant and gives people like you fodder for your anti-homosexual vomit. There is also NOTHING to back up the claims mentioned in the article. It’s an opinion piece.
I hate having to reply to you here, but since you are cowardly and don’t allow comments on your blog, I was forced to do so.
A question for the larger audience: It seems that homophobic ISKCON members always talk about gay men, post articles about gay men, etc. The issue of gay women NEVER comes up. Is it that because you are men yourselves you’re more disgusted by the idea of male homosexuality? Is it that gay men threaten your tenuous sense of manhood? Or is it that you just hate women so much that you can’t be bothered to waste your precious blog space writing about us?
PS: The fact that Makow has a PhD does not make this article anything less than an opinion piece. I looked him up. Wow, what a nut.
Okay Sparky, I am the one who is spewing “hateful drivel”? You are the one who is throwing vicious personal attacks at me, and you do not even know me.
Second, you have completely sidestepped my argument. I asked you what is it that you think is hateful about this article? Henry Makow said that God intended for man and woman to unite in order to raise a loving family. What is “hateful” about heterosexuals raising children to be servants of God?
(Oh, and by the way to the above person who said that “homophobic” stuff like this makes him want to leave ISKCON and become a Mormon- I have news for you. The Mormons are quite conservative, in many ways, much more so than modern ISKCON. Homosexuality is not an accepted part of their belief system. In fact, most Mormons are against homosexuality.)
And now, I’ll shut up and let’s hear what Jagat-Guru Srila Prabhupada has to say about homosexuality:
In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life. (SB 3.20.26)
The priests are sermonizing on this idea of man-to-man marriage. Just see how degraded they have become! (JSD 6.5 Slaughterhouse Civilization)
They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. (conversation with GBC, Los Angeles, May 25, 1972)
“I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious, if you are.”
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Lalitananda — Hawaii 26 May, 1975
So, the whole point here is, if you do not want to follow Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, then why call yourself a devotee? Just like, if you do not want to follow Christ’s teachings, why call yourself a Christian? If you find it too difficult to simply surrender to Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, then maybe you might want to start looking for a different religion to be a part of. There’s plenty of choices out there- Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, Catholicism, Taoism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. But Srila Prabhupada stressed over and over again, that we CAN NOT compromise his teachings. Those who wish to do so are committing the greatest offense against Srila Prabhupada.
A lot of men find homosexuality repulsive but are tempted by pornography. This article is for them.
In the matter of what backs it up, I posted two quotes from Srila Prabhupada explaining the same principle. I don’t know how people can consider themselves devotees, especially in Iskcon, but not accept that.
I can understand why Corey doesn’t allow comments on his blog. As soon as anyone says anything in favor of wholesome, traditional families, the gays and feminists come out of the woodwork with their perverted philosophy trying to support the freaky gay lifestyle, calling straight talk “hateful,” “drivel,” etc. I really don’t have time for their stuff, nor do I enjoy talking with them. Of course if someone is trying to overcome homosexual tendencies, that’s great. Although I generally like free discussion, thanks to the pro-gay people who come here to push their agenda, I may have to turn on comment moderation to stop it. I’ll have to think about that.
Oh, the questioning of my masculinity or accusing me of hating women is simply ridiculous. I’m in a very happy marriage (husband & wife, 12 years, only marriage for both of us) with five kids. I’m opposed to feminism and homosexuality based on my understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions on these matters, which I consider for the benefit of society, certainly not due to hate.
Yes Pandu, this is called liberal inTolerance. If you are against homosexuality, they immediately label you a “homophobe” or “gay hater”. If you are against feminism, they immediately label you a “woman hater” or “misogynist”. I’ve had those labels spewed at me hundreds of times. So for the record, let me state:
I do not hate gay people. For the most part, I have found them to be nice and polite people, very friendly. I just do not agree with their lifestyle morally, or the social and spiritual consequences of it.
I do not hate women. I do, however, have an extreme distaste for women who have this arrogant feminist independent attitude, something which is quite common in the West. But when it comes to women who exhibit feminine qualities, I have tremendous respect for them. Speaking of that, you might want to check out the latest article on my blog, called “Men Must Champion Feminine Women”, http://harekrishnadiary.blogspot.com/2009/08/men-must-champion-feminine-women.html
Corey…first of all, there is nothing hateful about heterosexuals coming together, being married and raising families. That’s not what I think is hateful. What I think its hateful is blaming gay people for the popularity of pornography. What I find hateful is that people who have no clue tell me what’s in my heart and in my soul and my body. What’s hateful is anyone presuming to know that something is a disorder, simply because they “feel” it is. When did you “decide” you were straight, Corey? I’d really like to know the answer. Since all of us gays “choose” to be gay (even though being gay can get you killed), then heterosexuals must choose also. I’d love to know when you made that choice.
Second, I know you enough to remember you threatening physical violence to several people. I’ve read it myself. THAT’S intolerance, my friend. Seriously, wanting someone hurt, maimed or dead? Come on.
Third, I am sick or reading these same tired quotes from Prabhupada. I already know he was a backward, bigoted, frightened man who couldn’t stand the idea of anyone being “different.” I don’t need or want to hear it anymore.
I have read your blog and you get psychotically angry about women who actually want to have their own lives. I realize you copy and paste most of your entries, and they have been been written by other people. That’s because you can’t control yourself in your own writings, resorting to foul language and threats of violence. But yeah, you hate women. If somebody is unlucky enough to be married to you and has swallowed this load of crap, I truly feel sorry for her. She’s been brainwashed like all you others.
Pandu Das,
I’ve read your writings too. Are you telling me you DON’T have an agenda? My agenda is educating people about tolerance, and understanding that all people, no matter what, are spirit souls, and unless they commit some heinous crime, deserve the same freedoms you enjoy as a white male in this country. I know you scoff at my agenda. Be my guest, scoff away. Am I a feminist? Yeah. So hate me as much as you want. I don’t hate you, by the way., But you are free to think whatever you please, which is a cherished right in the good old USA.
I feel sorry for your wife too. Being brainwashed into thinking she can’t do anything but cook, clean and pop out babies. Do you have a girl, a boy, or both? Because I have read Prabhupada’s quotes expressing disgust at devotees who had female children. They weren’t “pure” enough, in his mind. If you want to explain P.’s writings on homosexuality, kindly explain that one to me too. Especially if you have a female child or children. If you need a reference, I’ll be glad to find it for you.
Ahhh, challenge me on your blog but mark me as spam when I try to respond. That’s classy.
Sparky,
In fact I had not done anything with the spam settings. Any comments that did not show up here were held in the “Spam Karma” plugin based on its own rating of them, which I had not changed from the default installation. How about accusing people without knowing what’s going on?
How is it that folks read PlanetIskcon but think of Srila Prabhupada as a “a backward, bigoted, frightened man” for challenging their perverted sexual identification. It says a lot about Iskcon’s diversion from the bona fide disciplic succession.
I remember when I was a kid I saw a movie wherein one guy gave some advice to a young man: “Don’t let your dick run your life.” I thought that sounded like a good piece of wisdom then, and it still does. It’s actually not as easy as it sounds.
Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee of Krishna. He taught perfect Krishna consciousness, but now a bunch of gays want to turn his teachings upside-down to protect their sexual identification. What they fail to understand is… well practically everything. It’s just a waste of time responding to gay activists because they’re so wrapped up in their sexual identification that they can’t understand anything about spiritual life.
—-
A techkical note: I made some progress with the issue of disappearing comments and was able to restore ones that were missing. It seems that some comments were getting caught in Spam Karma, and when I approved them they were getting caught in wordpress’s built-in spam trap. I’m going to be exploring other options to prevent this problem, but it may take some time. I would appreciate everyone’s patience until I get this resolved.
Wow, Sparky. Thank you very much for showing how liberal and tolerant and loving you really are. Thank you for also admitting that you are a feminist.
You say you don’t hate Pandu, and then you criticize him for being a white male, and then you viciously engage in criticism of his wife also (who you have probably never even met, I assume), saying she is “brainwashed” and that all she is good for is cooking, cleaning, and “popping out babies”.
You’re really a loving person, alright. Tell me, how can I become like you? If I become a supporter of homosexuality, and a supporter of feminism, will I also become as “loving” and “tolerant” as you are? I am just dying to become exactly like you, Ms. Sparky.
A bunch of gay illuminatis?
Why not just think “a bunch of gay folks want to be a part of this really amazing philosophy we have”? Because that’s pretty much what it is. They, along with many other people from many other walks of life, want to be a part of it. Because it’s a wonderful philosophy.
ISKCON and Krishna consciousness in general have really lost a lot of people for many reasons. Why push even more people away. If we’re supposed to be creating some vedic society, why not create a place for everyone?
Dammit, I sound like a hippie and I apologize for that. But really, it’s not a bad idea.
Actually, Pandu, I think you had better ban or block Sparky’s comments on here, at least until she learns how to address others with more respect. Vicious personal attacks have no place in a philosophical debate.
Eric, How can someone “want to be a part of this really amazing philosophy” but reject the teachings of the Founder-Acarya? It means they want to change the philosophy to accommodate their sense gratification. That doesn’t work, and it hurts others who may not have sufficient intelligence to discriminate.
Their idea of compassion is that we should let them think they can remain bound in bodily consciousness, making no real advancement, but imagining it somehow spiritual. It is not our perogative to make the rules, “yata mata tata patha.” If someone wants to chant Hare Krishna, that’s great even if they’re not following any regulative principles; but advancement will be shown by following the rules and regulations. If someone wants to push the idea that they can preach against the acarya and make advancement, it’s gross illusion and an obstacle to others’ spiritual advancement as well as their own.
Actual compassion is to help people become free from illusion. Its like when Indra was cursed to become a hog. He loved eating stool and having sex with his sow mate, forgetting his duty as the king of heaven. How can it be compassionate to let people live foolishly and encouraging others to do the same? People think there is freedom in rejecting rules and acting according to the sense urges, but that is not wisdom. Srila Prabhupada taught freedom through austerity, but due to lusty madness, people despise him for that. Of course people can think what they want, but in Iskcon it should be whatever Srila Prabhupada says.
BG 2.61: One who restrains his senses, keeping them under full control, and fixes his consciousness upon Me, is known as a man of steady intelligence.
BG 2.62: While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises.
BG 2.63: From anger, complete delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost one falls down again into the material pool.
BG 2.64: But a person free from all attachment and aversion and able to control his senses through regulative principles of freedom can obtain the complete mercy of the Lord.
Gay illminati terrorists are trying to take over the world by overinundating our senses with images of woman on woman sex action… it’s like we’ve finally figured out what they’re up to… thank God for the brilliant minds running this totally open and loving institution that’s only perogative is to save us from the witch maya and obviously not control us by projecting fearful, hateful opinions… Haribol!!!
How about lesbians? Is that caused by their impotency? The fact is that homosexuals almost always say that they knew they were gay before they hit puberty, before they even had sex. Plus, impotency means without the ability to have an erection, are we to believe that men become gay because they can’t have an erection because they had to much sex with women?
I’m curious Pandu, do you believe all of that? From the rational objective view it is obviously wrong, will you now claim yourself to be “attacking Prabhupada” if you really don’t believe the above to be correct?
You guys remind me of Narahari Das ( http://harekrishnanews.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/noah-where-to-hide/ ) who believes in a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, and to take over ISKCON through “the Jew controlled GBC.” Like the author of your article he believes the Illuminati (whose leaders are Jews btw) are trying to force values such as liberalism, feminism, homosexuality, etc on the world and in ISKCON in some diabolical satanic plot. Amazingly many devotees believe such stuff.
Pandu Das, in this very thread, you stated: “Of course if someone is trying to overcome homosexual tendencies, that’s great. Although I generally like free discussion, thanks to the pro-gay people who come here to push their agenda, I may have to turn on comment moderation to stop it. I’ll have to think about that.”
So, when I posted again and was suddenly given a message saying my comment had to be approved by the moderator because it could be spam, I assumed you made you decision. You can see why, after what you wrote, can you not? But you are saying you did not “turn on comment moderation?” That’s just a little too coincidental to be a coincidence in my opinion.
None of my previous comments were flagged. So yeah, I did accuse you. Why would the plug-in suddenly “suspect” me when it had not previously done so? I admit I am nowhere near a genius when it comes to computers or software, and I am sorry if my accusation offended you. But in my mind it was justified.
A few weeks ago I updated my wordpress software to the latest version, and since then I’ve been having all sorts of trouble with the spam catchers. Comments were disappearing after being accepted, and I couldn’t find them, nor could I see how it was making its decisions. As a matter of integrity, I had to manually post comments by people who were attacking me, despite having very little time to deal with this. Earlier today I found about a dozen comments that I had rescued from the spam folder only to find their way into another spam folder. This very moment I’m looking into an alternative, probably a captcha system, so please be patient. Thank you. Without some way for dealing with spam, the blog would be flooded with hundreds of stupid advertisements a week.
Corey, the fact that Pandu das is white was not an accusation. It is a fact.
And I do believe that ANYONE who considers ANY human being to be infallible is brainwashed. I know I’m not the only one who has come along and said these things. There have been books and articles, blog posts, accounts of personal experiences, etc. that all attest to the fact that people who believe(d) that Prabhupada was infallible were brainwashed. I am hardly the first on to bring it up. I think people who believe in human infallibility are brainwashed, no matter what leader or guru they revere.
As for your statement that I should be banned for not having proper respect, all I can say is I have read many, many posts and comments written by you. Isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black? Threatening to kill people is treating with respect? hardly.
Pandu das, yes, I used to read planetiskcon. I do have a spiritual life, and I do have a deep love for God. I was attracted, at first, by what looked on the outside to be happy, peaceful people dancing around in the streets praising god, chanting the holy names, etc. I wanted that peace. But I learned later that it was largely a mask. I learned that many devotees are terribly unhappy in their situations in temples and are afraid to voice any doubt, for fear of being put out on the street or worse. I realized what an incestuous (figurative language here — don’t want you to misunderstand), homophobic, anti-woman, child abusing rat-trap it is, full of people who have without a doubt “fallen down,” as you would say.
There are individual Hare Krishna devotees I know who are an exception to this rule. I am glad I know them, but I wish they were actually given a voice and listened to, instead of being kicked or forced out or told to shut up.
I will ask a question I have asked many times before, but which devotees always manage to evade. If indeed we are all spirit-souls (which I believe,) and if our bodily dress does not matter, which is what ISKCON teaches, why is there such a “caste system” within the institution, based on keeping men in positions of power, women in the kitchen, and gays out on the street? If all that is just bodily dress, why does it matter to you all so much if someone is a woman or if someone is gay? It’s a huge contradiction that I wish I could get an honest, well thought out, reasonable, intelligent answer to. I think you all recognize the contradiction and don’t really have a good answer. Why I think I might get one here is really beyond me. But try I must.
OK, I’ve disabled Spam-Karma-II and added an arithmetic captcha below the comment form. Hopefully that will work better. There are still other spam catchers in effect, but I think it was Spam-Karma that was the problem. Let’s see how that goes.
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Sparky,
Your mistake is in thinking that Krishna cannot make a pure devotee, or that a pure devotee is fallible. Of course, a pure devotee can appear imperfect by mundane calculation, but he is perfect in that he is completely surrendered to Krishna’s will.
My personal history was that I set out on a quest to understand the absolute truth by direct perception and very quickly found Krishna, by Srila Prabhupada’s mercy. Krishna appeared personally and instructed me out of Bhagavad-gita As It Is for what by mundane calculation would have been about two hours. During this experience He made it clear that Srila Prabhupada is his bona fide representative, so pure that Srila Prabhupada’s very existence glorified Krishna immensely. Like you, I did not know that Krishna could create someone so clear a channel for Krishna. After that, I knew, and so I accept Srila Prabhupada’s every word. I don’t claim to understand every teaching, but I do understand almost all at least superficially. By superficially I mean for example that although I know sense gratification is the pursuit of suffering, I have not been able to completely abandon that pursuit.
In the matter of your question about spirit souls, my answer would be that while spiritually we are of the same quality, on the bodily platform we are comprised of various combination of the material modes of nature (sattva, tamas, and rajas), which expand to the material elements and form the three dosas (vata, pitta, and kapha). So there are countless material combinations forming the different bodies. The gross and subtle bodies are produced according to the desires and reactions of the individual. There are restrictions in the association of men and women and homosexuals of various types for the purpose of reducing the potential for agitation of lust. As Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita, lust is the “all-devouring sinful enemy of the world.” Lust makes us want to forget Krishna and try to enjoy in His place. It is the opposite of Krishna consciousness.
Apart from that, different bodies have various specialties or talents. For example, men cannot give birth, and women cannot cause impregnation. When these two considerations (curbing lust and bodily specialization) are taken into account, the result is the various roles in varnasrama dharma. Women are to be protected and men are categorized into different occupations according to their talents and training. This social order is designed by Krishna for the sake of the gradual advancement of humanity.
Please bear in mind, though, that I am not a leader in ISKCON. I have practically no say in what goes on even at my local temple because I am convinced that Srila Prabhupada did not authorize diksa gurus after him. Officially the North American GBC would consider me an enemy for this, but the local devotees still value my services. However I have to be careful about what I say or risk being banned. Personally I am satisfied with my internal connection to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, but I want my family to have a place to go to socialize with devotees. My wife and I have five children, and we want them to have devotee friends. For that, ISKCON is the only game in town. But my point now is that I don’t believe that everything that goes on in ISKCON is as Srila Prabhupada intended. There is a degree of corruption; I’m not sure how much, but definitely some. Therefore I keep a healthy distance and do not depend on ISKCON for my spiritual guidance. I look to Srila Prabhupada.
Please let me know if my answer was not satisfactory, or if you want me to elaborate. Hare Krishna.
Just a tip from blogger to blogger… i used to use spam karma and then stuff like this happened. On Sit Properly.com, I have it set so that the first post by anyone has to be approved. If I ok their post, then then rest of their posts are ok.
Shame, Spam Karma used to be really good. I don’t like how it retroactively marks comments as spam.
Anyway, just a tip, for what it’s worth.
Pandu das, THANK you for your reply. Thank you for explaining your position and your reasons for having it. Thank you for not jumping down my throat because I believe in equal rights for all people. You may disagree with me, but it’s refreshing to have someone who will respond not out of anger, but with much thought and intelligence. I honestly mean that. While I don’t agree with much of what you say, I respect you for giving me such a well thought out response, instead of going on the defensive.
Question: Women have abilities and training too, outside of the home. In fact, there are hundreds of thousands of female CEO’s, doctors, lawyers, accountants, psychologists, financial managers, professors, etc. I understand that all of these occupations are of the material and not the spiritual world. But why is it that men are free to pursue vocations in which they have expertise, but women are not, even though they may have the same or even greater expertise?
Again, thanks for your response.
Also, thanks for the clarification and update of the spam situation.
Also…what ABOUT those letters where Prabhupada is angry that a man and his wife had a baby girl instead of a boy? He told the man he was not pure enough. That just sounds so wrong to me.
Sparky,
Your’re welcome. In Bhagavad-gita Krishna mentions “prescribed duties” many times, and twice states that it’s better to perform one’s own prescribed duties faultily than to do another’s duties perfectly. He created the varnasrama system (b.g. 4.13) for the benefit of human society. Arjuna talks about this in the first chapter, verses 39-43. His mistake that leads to his being chastised by Krishna was that he (not actually ignorant, but playing the part) failed to consider the soul and Krishna’s will. However he was, in fact, well educated in Vedic culture, and his points are still valid.
A big part of Arjuna’s concern is the chastity of women. The result of unchastity is unwanted progeny, whether due to the sinful reactions to abortion or the character of the offspring which can be less than ideal for a number of reasons. A woman’s primary duty, her prescribed duty, is to bear children for her husband. Materially speaking, this is more important than the husband’s work. In providing for my family, I am the servant of my wife and children. Her work is far more important than mine. Basically I’m just trying to get money to support them, but she is actually giving birth and doing most of the work to raise the children.
When women go to work alongside men, there is intermingling of unmarried persons of opposite sex, compromising chastity. Because of that, and the fact that wives are less dependent on the husbands, divorce becomes common. There was no divorce in Vedic culture. When women work outside the home, the children’s upbringing is compromised as they are mostly raised by persons who do not love them like a mother should. A woman’s duty is the emotional hub of the family, and when she leaves the home for outside employment, the family’s stability is compromised.
My wife stays home taking care of the children, who are homeschooled, and everyone who knows us is amazed at how happy and cohesive we are together. She and the girls do all the things they like. My wife wanted to spin wool and weave and knit, so we have sheep and angora goats providing fiber. They plant seeds in the spring and harvest vegetables in the summer and fall. They make various crafts and artwork. They knit hats and scarves and sweaters, and sew dresses. They cook and offer nice meals to the Deities. It is a wholesome, ideal life. They do not have to bother with the office nonsense and the rat race. We want to get our cow pregnant soon, so next year they will be milking and making butter, cheese, etc.
In short, men’s going to a job is an austerity. Really. I would much rather stay home, but I go to work so my wife doesn’t have to tolerate that. Staying home and doing household work is in the mode of goodness, and goodness brings happiness. Going to a job is more in the mode of passion or in some cases ignorance, which lead to misery and madness. My solace is in coming home to the environment where my wife and kids spend almost all their time.
Of course, when someone is conditioned by passion, there is restlessness and dissatisfaction. That is the plight of women today. They are driven out of the home by their own dissatisfaction. They want material comforts and therefore need more money. All this is contrary to spiritual advancement.
That aspect is why men are important. Srila Prabhupada many times said that men are more intelligent than women. That doesn’t mean math or physics or business or literature, etc.; it means that men are more suited to renunciation. When my wife and I were married, the brahmana told me that I can sleep under a tree using my arm to rest my head (OK by me), but my wife needs a nice home, soft bed, and pillow. Women are more delicate, and so they need more comfort. In general they are more materially attached, and it is more difficult for them to practically realize “I am not the body,” and really know oneself as the soul. That is the benefit of a baby boy over a girl, especially when a spiritual society is being founded. Srila Prabhupada wanted to make spiritual leaders. As he also pointed out, a young man can travel all over the world as a bramacari, distributing books and propagating spiritual culture, whereas a young lady needs to be protected from unscrupulous men.
Practically speaking, due to the progress of Kali Yuga, these distinctions between men and women are becoming blurred. Men are becoming effeminate, or on the other side they’re becoming brutish; and women are becoming more masculine, or their negative female features are increased. Still, in a society of devotees, we try to cultivate qualities of goodness and fit into prescribed duties that bring peaceful families and a culture of spiritual realization. So far I find that ISKCON has not achieved this, and is a rather embarrassing example. Still it is an ideal which I don’t believe should be abandoned. At least it is working very well for my family.
To anyone on here who still doubts that homosexuality is a socially destructive behavior, please look at the following:
http://harekrishnadiary.blogspot.com/2009/09/another-bogus-iskcon-guru-falls-down.html
Because Param Gati Swami could not control his homosexual urges, now he has fallen down and all of his disciples are left without a guru. This is the practical result of homosexuality- destroyed lives.
The overwhelming conclusion of Srila Prabhupada’s preaching is that one should chant Hare Krsna, follow the regulative principles, and try to go back to Godhead. If one person’s falldown is bourbon, and the other person’s falldown is rum, is it to our benefit to endlessly dissect and speculate about which illicit, sinful activity is more degraded? Is it to our advantage to watch pornography and describe pornography to other people and dissect the particular flavor of other people’s illicit sexual activities and somehow argue that if one is attracted to chicken and one is attracted to fish that one or the other is more or less harmful? The regulative principles are the regulative principles. When I took my vows, I promised to abstain from illicit sex. The fact that my nature is a hetero orientation does not make me any better or worse than a devotee with a different orientation; what matters is my ability (or inability) to follow the principles and maintain the vows I took with my spiritual master. It seems that the association of devotees would be a much more blissful place to be if certain devotees did not spend so much time obsessing over the exact flavor of other devotees’ failings, and perhaps spent more time detailing how they have been successful in their personal ashramas. It’s very nice to read about the happiness of the grhasta life, and brings inspiration to us all.
*cheer*
Corey, no, it’s about a man who failed to uphold one of the regulative principles/ Straight guys “fall down too,” do they not?
There was at least one complaint about Makow’s taking liberty to broadening a word’s definition to help make his point. He said the pro-gay folks do this and so he thought it would be fair to do the same. The difference was that he announced it rather than doing it on the sly. The objection was made here that an individual cannot choose his own definition for words.
I thought about this a little, and an example came to mind today. Consider the word “diversity.” It’s a word that has become somewhat of a banner for the gay movement. They say that diversity is good, and it’s certainly true to some extent. However it’s only allowed to be good when it favors them. What about the diversity that allows people to homosexuality as irreligious? The pro-gay movement seems to want to eradicate this view, so that the only viewpoint that has validity is one where homosexuality is considered a progressive human condition.
When I published this blog article, I was fiercely attacked. I was ridiculed and condemned for supporting the viewpoint portrayed in the article. Where is the value of diversity in this?
So here is the point: Diversity is a word without values. It’s a statistical description. A group is diverse if it has many different features, and not diverse if it has few relative to its count. However in culture there is a bias as one political movement has taken control of the word’s meaning for its own purpose. Thus deviant sexual behavior has been given a positive value by its association with diversity, whereas opposition to such behavior is denied. If one is going to call diversity good, then the opposition to diversity, or the opposition to one group’s value judgments must also be good. Instead of being valued because of its contribution to diversity, it is labeled as “hate.” “Give a dog a bad name and hang him.”
You’re missing a very important point here. Gay people (in general) don’t care what you think. They don’t care if you hate them or love them. They just want the same rights that you have. That’s the gay movement from beginning to end. There is no gay agenda, no vast conspiracy of gay illuminati atheist rascal demons trying to destroy the moral fiber of the universe.
Simply put, you don’t matter. I don’t matter. You can hate them and I can love them till the cows come home. But really, all they want are the rights that you and I already take for granted. Our differing opinions on this don’t matter.
Historically, those who fight for more rights and liberties win. Pretty much always. From the American revolution to the civil rights movement and onward. When it comes to right, the underdog always wins.
Diversity (which is a tired word that I too am sick of) is about different people being able to live together without too much strife. This even includes people who disagree with each other.
I can deal with people who are different than me. You cannot. That doesn’t make me superior or better than you, all it means is that I can live around all types of people and not feel threatened, intruded upon or offended. You cannot and therefore shouldn’t (you’d be happier if you didn’t). It’s a shame, but that’s how it is.
I don’t remember the exact details, but as I recall last year in MA a church was sued because they did not want to perform gay weddings, so rather than go against their religious beliefs they stopped performing any weddings. A photographer did not want to do a gay wedding, so he was sued for several thousand dollars and forced out of business.
There is definitely an intolerant gay agenda.
Believe it or not, I think suing a church that doesn’t want to marry me is wrong. It is indeed that church’s right to decide, based on it’s beliefs, that it wants to discriminate against me. Why would I want a church like that to marry me anyway? That said, I strongly believe in my right to protest in front of said church if I choose to. That’s diversity in action, isn’t it?
Yes, the gays are some of the most intolerant people around. They are even worse than the feminists! Homosexual marriage was put on the ballot in many states, and it was overwhelmingly rejected in all states. Eric is right, the homosexuals could care less what you think, or about your rights, if they have to trample all over your rights in order to establish their homosexual agenda, they will unhesitatingly do so. They could care less that the majority of public opinion is opposed to their agenda. They will cheat, go to the courts, sue, and do whatever it takes to overturn the majority’s opinions.
Sorry, but I can’t help but be amazed at how people who support homosexuality outnumber the people who are against it. What is amazing is, these people are claiming to be devotees, and yet their words are totally opposed to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. I mean, I will say it for the 1000st time. If you are opposed to a religion’s instructions, then you can’t really call yourself a member of that religion, now can you? So, if you do not want to follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, then why not just get real with yourself? You don’t really want to be a devotee of Krishna. Or, you can go join one of the thousands of watered down Hindu organizations that tolerate such nonsense liberality. But stop contaminating Srila Prabhupada’s Hare Krishna Movement if you are unwilling to surrender to him and accept his instructions.
Anyway, this seems to be a western problem more than anything else. In India, for example, the average man or woman does not support feminism or homosexuality. The problem is, this western conditioning that westerners have, when they become a devotee, most of them do not let go of their past conditioning. As a result, many of them are not able to make much real spiritual advancement. You cannot follow western culture (which is atheistic) and try to follow Vedic culture (which is theistic) at the same time, just like you cannot run a Windows software on a Macintosh computer. It is incompatible.
Anyway, this problem will sort itself out, as the West increasingly declines. For westerners to wake up from their atheism, I think it would take a total collapse of the western civilization. The present situation in America and the West is pointing towards exactly that- an unsustainable, artificial, demoniac society, that is very quickly beginning to collapse. So time will tell, and Prabhupada predicted that modern society would be destroyed by the very nuclear weapons which they themselves created.
Until modern society collapses, I don’t see much hope for westerners, because most of them are blindly following this modern atheistic society into the abyss.
Pandu, the story about the church seems to be untrue. I can’t find any *real* references to it anywhere (even in the Christian media).
The photographer thing is true and happened in New Mexico. However, one crazy gay couple doesn’t support the “intolerant gay agenda” theory.
I spent about 15 minutes looking and couldn’t find it either. Probably the Illuminati had them scrubbed from the Internet. That’s a joke.
I did find a few other articles during my search, most of which I remember reading about when the stories were fresh:
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/17/opinion/oe-stern17?pg=1
* A San Diego County fertility doctor was sued for refusing to perform artificial insemination for one partner of a lesbian couple for religious reasons. The doctor referred the patient to a colleague, promised there would be no extra cost and offered to care for her during her subsequent pregnancy. The case is now before the California Supreme Court, and justices seemed hostile to the doctor’s defense during oral arguments last month.
* Catholic Charities in Boston and San Francisco ended adoption services altogether rather than be compelled by anti-discrimination laws to place children with same-sex couples. In the Boston case, Catholic Charities was prepared to refer same-sex couples seeking to adopt to other providers, but that was not sufficient.
* A Lutheran school in Riverside County was sued in 2005 under California’s Unruh Act (which forbids discrimination by businesses) for expelling two students who allegedly were having a lesbian relationship, in contravention of the religious views of the school. The case was thrown out in Superior Court in January, but the students have appealed.
* Public school officials in Poway, Calif., so far have successfully barred students from wearing T-shirts that register their opposition to homosexuality on campus. One lawsuit made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court before being dismissed (as moot, because the students had graduated), but another federal lawsuit is pending.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0617/p01s03-usju.html
• In 2006, a Methodist group in New Jersey that rented out its boardwalk to the public for weddings lost tax exemptions after refusing to allow a same-sex commitment ceremony.
• In April, a New Mexico human rights commission charged a wedding photographer in Albuquerque thousands of dollars in legal fees after she refused, based on her Christian beliefs, a request to shoot a commitment ceremony.
That’s gay tolerance for you.