An unexpected fruit
I never suspected I would feel this way, now after fifteen years of doing my best and trying really hard to live for pleasing Srila Prabhupada by participating in and promoting his movement. I was greatly inspired by a vision of Krsna that originally caused me to seek out devotees as purported to exist in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is that I bought used from a new-age bookstore I happened into while getting ready to go hide in a forest to mediate to the end.
I accepted this vision with enough faith to keep a clean shaved head with conspicuous sikha and tilak for several years, chanting about 55,000 rounds, growing and worshipping Tulasi at my home for ten years, but after so much effort I have given, the apparent nonexistence of Krsna frustrates my urge to rapidly and forcefully punch His lotus face. I could gripe and cite a seemingly endless narration of corruption and abuse, but my perspective is just one of many already out there. I suspect that it could be fun to do some choice search engine counts, but not right now. Right now the kindest thing I can think of to day is that He probably doesn’t exist except as formed in each mind infected with this painful thought-virus. Either that or I cannot understand Krsna’s cruelty that has me finding the opposite of the love I exhaustively tried to grow for Him.
Pandu Prabhu,
Burnt-out Hey?! If there is one Person who is eagerly waiting to see you, that would be Krishna. Please develop some serious desire to see him and He will make sure to get you out of this place
It’s no use if I see Him but others can’t, nor would it be any good to leave others suffering in the world. I never wanted a selfish version of spiritual life, nor did I want anything but Krsna. I was not absolutely perfect but I worked very hard to mold my life like Prabhupada said, and it at least should have been enough that Krsna would not take away all my hope and faith. For the past 2 years it’s just seemed like I was possessed by delusion in thinking of Krsna and believing in Him.
Offenses perhaps? If your realizations are heart-felt and not from tricky mind, Krishna is there for you. If possible, take a trip to holy-dhams (Vrindavan, Mayapur) with a service mood. Don’t forget, Krishna may trick you but He NEVER abandons you!
That’s what they say, but it seems extremely corrupt to me. My offense was to pursue my concern (having confirmed with my guru that this was my duty in the circumstance) about a known child molester who was brought to my community and celebrated by his guru friends. I was a community board member and my wife was on the child protection team when this person arrived and I heard from elsewhere that he was officially banned from ISKCON for ignoring his official rectification plan. ISKCON Law requires a community vote when a person known to have history as a child abuser wants to be on ISKCON property, and the gurus/gbc violated this law, but instead of justice or child protection, I was shunned from the community for asking a question that the disciples didn’t like (although ISKCON law required this info to be disseminated to us proactively).
So, the unrepentant child molester is doing fine (no aparadha there, of course), the gurus who violate ISKCON child protection laws are doing great too (would Prabhupada be pleased with the way they maintain a saintly image despite protecting child abusers, passing child protection laws and violating them to show the power of a pure devotee guru?), but the family man trying to keep a safe environment was kicked out after ten years of devotional service (I held onto my faith for five more years before it was exhausted).
The series of events transpired exactly as one might expect if God was a delusion, and how I could not imagine a benevolent God conducting His movement. It makes me think the vision of Krsna that captured my mind and kept me devoted for fifteen years was a hallucination. My experience seems to prove to me that there cannot be a benevolent God. The kids were not protected originally, and after the problem was said to be corrected, I found still quite corrupt.
I even tried, after nearly 2 years of exile, surrendering to those whom I apparently offended, accepting all the blame, but I couldn’t maintain a life like that for more than a few years with an inner moral compass that I had to ignore for the sake of being in good favor with devotees.
Also, we can’t travel. I’m “working poor” while maintaining a big family and a farm animal sanctuary. I can’t leave for more than two days. We’ve even been doing cow protection at home (along with sheep, goats, etc) for the past 6 years, although now the cow (who is an irregular breed and too aggressive for a family cow or living with small animals) is at risk and the devotees capable of taking her want me to pay for it, but I’m fed up and too poor. Krsna apparently cares neither for devotee kids, nor cows, nor me.
I remember in or about March 2005, I was elected to the community board at Gita-Nagari, but I did not seek the position and was afraid of the unavoidable offenses that would come with it. I went before Sri Sri Radha Damodara and prayed for Their protection and guidance, and eventually left feeling I should accept the duty and accepting that my qualifications were good.
Then a few weeks later, I happened to see a complaint lodged from a person in Puerto Rico about a devotee whom in a few more weeks arrived in my community, although I did not immediately realize that they were the same person.
This Vakresvara Pandit Das, I had never met him before but respected him as the fine devotee I assumed him to be, until one day I saw him with a group of kids burning all the woods undergrowth between the Gita-Nagari temple and cow pastures. My wife and children and I cried in horror as we loved that woods and were afraid of anyone breathing poison ivy smoke. I had thought Vakresvara had been talking about removing garbage when he said he would clean up the forest.
The CPO (I was in touch with Tamohara Das, gbc) would not provide any detail of Vakresvara’s record, but I obtained a verified copy of ISKCON’s Official Decision finding him guilty of child molestation, and confirmed that he had been and remained in contempt of the rectification plan it required for him to step foot on ISKCON property.
I followed the best etiquette I knew and took painstaking efforts to address my concerns discretely and with no progress whatsoever until Bhakti-Tirtha Swami passed away. That night I had an inadvertent confrontation causing me to believe Vakresvara Pandit Das was a thug wearing tilak. Anuttama (gbc) ordered him to extinguish the huge fires he had created with his forest clearing boys, but I went out to do it since he was neglecting it, and I was afraid he would punch me then when I verbally offered my obeisances he scornfully rejected it.
The next day I saw my guru and he agreed that I should continue to investigate and pursue a satisfactory resolution. I soon realized that no one in the community would talk to me about it. I was told Radhanatha Swami would only agree to meet with my wife but not me, and then left town when we said we were not comfortable with that arrangement.
Thoroughly frustrated, I inquired on the BT Swami email group whether anyone knew what were his views on the subject, and they responded with condemnation of me in various ways. Secret board meetings were held to devise a way to impeach me from the board, and several brahmanas lied to me to conceal them before giving me papers to sign over my conscience to them, which I did not. My guru,Bhaktimarga Swami lied to me about his involvement with this exposed conspiracy, and broke his promise to arrange a mediator.
I could find no spiritual shelter and plunged onto severe depression gore nearly two years, hanging on just to maintain my family.
Then I cracked, and assumed fault for everything and begged forgiveness to be with devotees again. However nobody apologized for how they treated me. I failed at regaining confidence in my guru and became interested in the rtvik view but found that frustrating as well.
I prayed so much and shed so many tears begging for Krsna’s mercy, until it occurred to me that as an aspiring devotee I was perplexed, but if God were a delusion then all this would make perfect sense. It’s been about two years since that idea set in, which makes it seem that all my bhakti practice was pointless.
Lastly, I learned last year that ISKCON Law requires the authorities (gbc tp) to notify and poll for approval from householders in the community when a past child abuser wants to stay at a temple. So I was acting on behalf of a molested (former) child to uphold an ISKCON law that I did not know of, while the authorities were violating that law. How could I be judged an offender?
Hare Krsna prabhu,
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I am sorry to hear of your difficulties and find your speaking out very brave.
I can see that you have become a victim of ‘the institution.’ Surrendering to the ‘shadow ISKCON’ is not the same as surrendering to Krsna. Join the club. You have been cheated, not by Krsna, but by these rogues in devotional attire.
Rest assured, Krsna is real. You must be patient and carry on with your sadhana. Avoid the mundaners and dive deep into the sastra and take shelter of the acaryas. That is the safe path.
Hope you and your good family are well.
Your servant,
Vraja Vilasa dasa
Why can’t Krsna protect His movement and aspiring devotees from rogues?
Thinking Krsna is imaginary is a rational alternative to thinking He is so neglectful of protecting innocent devotees or would not accept me and let me go. I have to maintain my family and cannot afford to lose my mind in separation, especially now that my faith has been quite exhausted.
Hare Krsna prabhu,
It is WE who are meant to act to protect His movement. Arjuna did not say, “Why won’t You stop this, Krsna?” He voluntarily surrendered to the task. You may have been alone in that part of the world on that occasion, but there are many, many others who would have joined you at that time but who live elsewhere. This is what you tried to do. No problem there.
But, don’t forget that Krishna also says, “Do your duty, but don’t become attached to the result.”
Don’t think that Krsna has not seen your efforts. Undoubtedly you will be ‘rewarded.’ We are very impatient. This life is very short. Maybe next life or down the track this life you may meet Krsna face to face. Maybe He is testing you to see how sincere you are? Maybe that is your task in life – to undergo these tests. Maybe in your past life you were one on the other side of the fence?
According to our sastra, that means that Krsna is favouring you – He has taken away your status within the false institution. Don’t equate ISKCON management with either ‘devotees’ or class what they do necessarily as ‘devotional service.’
Krishna HAS protected the movement – but you first have to surrender to the REAL movement. THAT, Krsna always protects, because no member there is anything les than pure. And He always protects His pure devotees.
I really think that your ‘faith’ has been misplaced. You have simply been cheated into thinking that the local ‘devotees’ and ‘ISKCON temple’ are representing Srila Prabhupada. Clearly, they are not, as they simply let that disaster happen. Any REAL follower would not have. Quite possibly, they are ‘demons in the dress of Vaisnavas.’
You have done your bit and made a stand. That is the best you could have done under the circumstances. Your material poverty and distance from the locals is actually a blessing.
Summary: You have been cheated in thinking that ‘serving’ your local ISKCON temple is the same as serving Krsna. If you are following demoniac leaders there, then you are not. If you have a weak ‘guru,’ then reject him. This is a time for you to become detached from falsity, from false devotees, from false institutions, and take sheler of Srila Prabhupada through his books, take shelter of real devotees, and sadhana bhakti.
I wish you well.
Your servant,
Vraja
Dear Vraja,
Srila Prabhupada presided over an ISKCON in which children were raped DURING HIS LIFETIME.
Srila Prabhupada presided over an ISKCON in which devotees were murdered for dissent.
Srila Prabhupada presided over an ISKCON in which devotees were taught to lie, cheat and steal.
Srila Prabhupada presided over an ISKCON in which demoniac men rose to leadership with Srila Prabhupada’s blessing.
Taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada, even during his manifest presence, could have gotten you raped, beaten, abused or even killed. Why should anyone expect that taking shelter of him NOW will yield any better result?
There are nearly 60 million Gaudiya Vaishnavas on the planet right now. The ones who have “taken shelter of Srila Prabhupada” are among the most messed-up, neophyte, warring, demoniac and troubled of the lot. “The proof of the pudding is in the eating.” Show me the result of taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada. It’s a pretty sorry result. Thousands upon thousands have done it, yet experience shows that the longer people spend “taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada” the more they get messed up, alienated from their consciences and even from the basic standards of being a human being. Meanwhile, disciples of so many other Gaudiya Vaishnava gurus are making nice advancement, not getting involved in drugs or divorce or so many other Western ills, and actually doing credit to Mahaprabhu’s teachings.
Srila Prabhupada was powerful enough to convince Paul/Pandu that Krishna does not exist. That’s a demoniac power, and indicative of why ISKCON and anything that claims to be “Prabhupada”-oriented should be avoided like the proverbial plague. Paul, please don’t give up on your spiritual development. Just don’t surrender your intelligence to some “movement” that demands that you abandon your conscience and intelligence in order to participate and grow. Real spiritual life transcends the conscience and intelligence; it doesn’t conflict with it. I wish you every success as you go forward, and I hope you are healing from the damage done to you by the cult.
Your old friend here again. I remember you were the only one who defended me during the whole time I was getting attack by rabid man hating feminist nazis for that Hare Krishna Diary blog. LOL! Fun times…
I know exactly how you feel, what you are saying, because I am feeling the exact same thing. We are in this same boat together, it seems.
At this point, I have lost all faith and I am just waiting for Krishna to finally punish these demons and bogus gurus.
I have made a vow that I will NOT worship Krishna, as long as he allows these demons to go on. Until He punishes these demons and bogus gurus and fixes the mess that is ISKCON, I will not worship him in any way.
So it seems like a fair bet. If Krishna wants me to worship him, he had better fix this horrible mess that he allowed to happen. And if he doesn’t fix it? Well fuck him, I will just continue on in my normal karmi life and develop the business and software job I am working on right now.
As for the last dude here, Glad I got Out, sure you are free to think whatever you want. I still feel very indebted to Prabhupada for the different aspects of spiritual and material knowledge he imparted to me. So it’s interesting, even though I feel angry towards Krishna and refuse to worship him until he fixes the mess and hell that ISKCON has become, I do not feel any anger towards Prabhupada, and still feel great affection for him. Kind of interesting, no?
Hi Caitanya. Nice to hear from you. I wondered if you would stay with it or not. I’m almost entirely out of the devotee scene. It’s difficult not to be bitter about having my attempt at spiritual experience spoiled by “devotee” scandals, but at least I can hopefully begin to catch up with the empirical world and seem to be making a little progress. I’m doing a pretty cool job now as the program specialist managing data and compliance for Pennsylvania’s oil & gas drilling for the past six months so far, and I need to get to bed now. I don’t know what I believe anymore, just trying to have an open mind and not take any b.s., and catching up with science.
I’m very glad to hear from you as well, Paul. I always considered you as a true friend and not some kind of asshole who will just turn your back on someone. That shows you have character and real integrity.
You work in managing data? I’m personally getting into the whole data warehousing field. Who knows, maybe we could even work together in the future on that. I don’t want to get into much detail about personal business over a public chat comment, but I believe you have my email address from the comment submissive form.
Whether I would stick with it or not. Well my sadhana is basically non-existent, and I share your same utter disgust that you feel towards these bullshit “devotees”.
It’s because you have such a strong sense of CHARACTER, HONESTY, and TRUTH that you REFUSE to associate with such low class scum. This shows that you are actually a good person.
As for Krishna? Who knows? How do I know that God exists?
As for Prabhupada? Truth be absolutely told, I don’t think about Prabhupada much anymore. The reason is, if I think about him, I will cry and not be able to stop. There is a sincere love in my simple heart for him. And even though externally, I do not follow any of the basic standards, I feel much more sincere and honest about my own personal life than most of these showbottle bullshit “devotees” are.
In the end, who the fuck knows, man? I am also focusing on my own personal life and working on developing an understanding of the business field which I am getting myself in to. I don’t have time to waste fighting about politics within some dumbass religion organization. So I have totally forgotten about ISKCON now.
Actually dude, now that I think about it. Everytime I try to get involved or have ANY contact or association with “devotees”, I ALWAYS get cheated and get screwed over by them.
FUCK ISKCON! FUCK DEVOTEES! FUCK KRISHNA! (Is this the kind of reward someone gets for trying to serve krsna? They get cheated? Well FUCK THAT! I can very well do without worshipping that kind of God). As for Prabhupada, I am still grateful to him for waking me up towards a few aspects of the material world.
every one here i am from india and i am here to tell u all some of the groung realities that krishna is just a myth he never existed he is a fake god in hinduism there are more than 3 billion gods how can there be so many gods , god is one he doesnt have shape he is omnipotent (it is according to hindu vedas which are written even before bagvat gita was written and are given more value than Bhagvat gita) krishna is a myth created by the indian bhramins (BHRAMIN-is a name of a caste their designation is priests they have created caste system they are high castes and low castes , low caste people were being treated as animals by the bhramins they have destroyed whole country by theis caste system ) they have created these myths to gain control over society in india only a person from bhramin caste can chant mantras, in 1970′s they have entered usa and started preaching their religion slowly people got attracted to that thinking that they would live peacefully but that is all bull shit it is all bull shit iskon is trying to earn money and gain control in foreign countries i would personally say it is all fake