August 30, 2005
Channelling session with Our Friends
“Our Friends” have described themselves as neither wholly singular or plural in identity, and having never been born into a material body. On their plane of existence, names are not needed because there are no secrets. Leslie and I have had many channelling sessions with Our Friends, who are channeled through a friend of ours (“the Woman”, as Our Friends call her), over the past ten years. I can vouch for their authenticity, as we have experienced many times when they have given us their tremendous insight on personal relationships outside the Woman’s field of knowledge. They have explained that when we would ask about a person, they would tune in to the person and get in touch with the person themselves. It seems to me that they would start with the knowledge in our minds and use it to locate the person whom we’re asking about; so we can see the depth of information increasing as as each subject progresses.
UPDATE: The woman who does this channelling told me
I could give out her name and e-mail, so here it is:
of course, change the formating to be like a regular e-mail address]
I highly recommend her for anyone who has questions about spiritual issues, relationships, etc. These channelling sessions are quite an amazing thing to experience, and can be highly valuable especially for those times in life when you really would like to know what’s going on. They (Our Friends, the channeled entities) know just how much to reveal to give the help you need without spoiling the experience, and they’re really nice to talk to.
UPDATE #2: After just one day, she’s already been preached to by an angry devotee, so she’s asked me to remove her contact info, so if anyone wants to get in touch with her, let me know and we’ll address that on an individual basis. Also, any discussion about the content of this post can take place through the comments link immediately below, or through my e-mail [pandu.bms (at) gmail.com].
Pandu: We moved to this area partly to go to this temple that’s nearby and be a part of their community. Well recently it’s become kind of a hostile place for us. Basically what had happened was that most of the community has a certain person they have as their guru, and he got cancer, and passed away a few months ago.
Before he past away maybe about two months before, he invited someone to come over there and stay until he left and to sing for him and stuff like that. We found out he had been found of having been a child molester. He had been duly convicted within our society and all of that. But due to this guru’s blessing or approval or recommendation or whatever, he was basically considered to be practically like a saint, this person we saw as a child molester. This whole society has had this Big issue with child abuse, they just went bankrupt a lawsuit settlement thing it cost 9.5 million dollars settlement. We thought it wasn’t very good to be honoring someone who was a child molestereverybody said that the guru was giving this mercy to this guy
Leslie: and more so they were saying he didn’t do it
Pandu: well both things.
Leslie: He claimed he didn’t do it.
Pandu: I was like well, what about the girl who was complaining about this, did she get mercy? Why did he think that was ok to invite somebody to our community and honor him if it seemed kind of detrimental to our society, and dangerous and all this stuff?
Leslie: There was a child protection organization that it undermined.
Pandu: So Everybody freaked out at me, and it just got worse and worse and worse, to the point where we don’t feel like we can really go to that temple anymore. They’ve basically driven us out. I’m even an elected community board member there, a leader. They basically want to, they want to impeach me, so I’m trying to decide whether to resign or not first; and it’s all because they think that this person who passed away is what they would call a “pure devotee” somebody who has no motives of his own and is just 100% pure and perfect in what he does and says and in what he teaches and everything like that. The fact that I raised a question about his judgment.
Leslie: In a public kind of forum.
Pandu: Yeah well no one was answering me privately so I asked the larger group and so first I was threatened and then condemned, by a good number of them and we’re basically driven out right now. And so we’re in this situation where we don’t really know how to deal with it. It’s kind of, it’s pretty disturbing. I haven’t formulated a question. We’re in this really difficult scene. I’m sometimes worried about our safety because we did get a threat, but mostly just feeling alienated to this place that we moved to where we could go to a temple we could go to and be a part of a little larger community. It would be nice if we could figure out a way to resolve our conflict. I don’t know. They seem to be pretty set in their ways I’m not really set in my ways as much but I sort of think I’m right about this.
Leslie: Pandu also documented all his feelings about it on a blog. They are especially mad about that too.
Pandu: Basically publicly sort of keeping a diary of my feelings about what’s going on. And so they really hate that too. Ideally we would like to be able to get along with them and get back into a peaceful situation where we could feel a kind of camaraderie. Right now it seems like there’s a conspiracy against us.
Leslie: Yeah it does, secret meetings, all kind/.
Our Friends (“O.F.”): We would say that you’re meeting sort-of face to face with one of the core patterns of human life on this planet. It is a pattern that human beings are meant to transcend and transform. It is sort of coming out of the physical experience or the physicality of experience of where there was predator and prey. And in the physicality of life on this earth, that is sort of part of the set up. When you look at the animal kingdom and there is the hunter and the hunted. That energetic in some ways got transformed within human culture because you were so often the prey. If human beings were put out in the wilderness you do not have, without the tools you can make, the ability to be really a major predator. You are rather a major source of prey for large predators.
So within that part of (as we have spoken with you in the past of) taking on the medium of the flesh as a form of creation and expressing creation and experiencing; to work within that certain medium, you are working within certain parameters and there is that energetic of predator and prey.
It has been taken within your human social structures and human consciousness, with a sort of, what you would think of, sort of a victim- persecutor and as another form of predator and prey. And what has transpired down through many millennium has been the predation of children, and what you have often seen as various forms of slavery, and very much across throughout much of your history has been a, sort of, very great perversion of the comprehension of the role of womanhood. It is something that we in a sense honestly do not yet comprehend. That is, how that the vessel of womanhood and the female body, which has such a great connection to what you would think of as the divine, through that ability to take in a seed and combine it with an egg, and gestate life, and bring forth a created body with an invited soul. And to bring that forth and through the expression of physicality and humanness is a huge manifestation in woman of the divine. And yet that divine meeting of two souls and two bodies in the union which is sexual has become so perverted in your culture, it is no longer recognized as sacred for the life giving. You can literally channel other beings into this world through this sacred act and yet it has it has come to be considered as a perverse act, and it has become an act of domination of men over women. What you’re up against here is a very bedrock mistake in human consciousness, in human understanding, that needs to be transformed in order for human beings to evolve. And within it, it has to stop this predator-prey mentality, which leads to a complete perversion of the understanding of sexuality and a misuse of women and children, boys and girls, as well as the enslavement of human beings to one another.
You have within you a very, as a man you have a much clearer sense than is common in your culture, throughout many men, you have a much greater sense of the sacred in human life and in womanhood, and in motherhood, and fatherhood, and in the raising of human life, new human life. You have a very protective instinct, not only for individual people but for the honoring of what it is to be human and that is a spiritual being that must be honored and held with care and loving nurturance. There are not that many people, and men who have that, who feel that, and see that, and comprehend that. Many are much more/. We would also say that sort of within that predator prey mentality also goes something of a herd mentality. You know herds stick together to avoid the lions.
And so in order for human beings to evolve there also has to become a recognition that, that process is one of sovereignty in cooperation. And that you do not give up your own sovereignty of being through cooperating, but rather that you bring your sovereignty and you cooperate together, and through that you explore. But that there is no one way, even in any given spiritual tradition, there is no one way. It is similar to any art form. You may give the same tools to twenty different artists; you are going to have twenty different paths, twenty different expressions. It is the same within a spiritual tradition. The tradition offers tools, it offers gifts, it offers a lot of nourishment. But each sovereign being needs to inculcate, and work with, and contemplate, and explore. So it is an interweaving. It is not a blanket lying down of capital-T Truth, so to speak.
And so you are more aware of this than many. And so what you are running into is really that bedrock wall of denial about the predator-prey mentality within human beings. And the acting out of it, and also the herding up to protect what is being denied, which is that predator-prey. And what you are seeing in part, which is so distressing to you, is that whatever the words that are being spoken, whatever the reasons and rationalizations and (spec)classifications (?) that are being given, underneath it what you are seeing and sensing is a devaluing of the life of children. It is a devaluing of the life of your little girls and of any child who might be in endangered. And that is what you are seeing, is sort of the sacrifice of the prey to the predator, and that does not make sense to you, because it doesn’t make sense.
So does that make sense? Does it make sense to you what we are sharing?
Pandu: Yeah, Yea
Leslie: Yeah it takes sort of some application, you know some of the details, like happening with the overall. It’s like the bigger picture.
O.F. : So what we would say is that you are, in terms of working it out, what we would say actually is that, does your temple currently have a teacher who is living there as a constant presence?
Leslie: For the children or like a guru?
O.F.: Yes, a guru. We don’t see someone being there as sort of the overarching head.
Leslie: No there was Bhakti-Tirtha who was dying but he wasn’t there physically present there a lot until he was going through his dying process. Now that is a big question Pandu’s guru is asking is whose in charge..?
O.F.: Yes that would be our sense would be what needs to happen is, this is something you are not going to resolve yourselves because it is very polarized. Their position is that ‘you do not question’ and your position is ‘We have to question; and it is not only a right, it is a duty.’ And for them that makes you the lion circling the herd, and who is going to strike. (laughter, “yeah”) And so they are getting out their clubs first rather than having the lion strike. They are very frightened by what you are raising and it’s not/. They cannot even look to the actual issue of the potential harming of children and what that means spiritually and what that means even physically in having someone present in your community. All they can see is that you are questioning “the word”, and for them that is what is more frightening. It is just ‘If we stop believing what someone else tells us to believe we won’t know who we are’ and that is a loss of a sense of identity a loss of moorings a loss of grounded-ness. When you ground yourself through someone else they better not change because you will find it extraordinarily terrifying. And you are questioning and suggesting that perhaps there is something that needs to be looked at in this that they do not wish to have change at all and that is very frightening to them. They can’t even look at the actual issue. All they can look at is, “Someone is questioning something,” and that would mean that they would have to think about everything. And do you see how that would feel to them like loosing all of their moorings?
If they have to question one thing then they have to question everything and think about and process and integrate it for themselves. That becomes very very threatening. It is easier to make someone else and something else your identity than it is to create it yourself. It’s much less fulfilling and it doesn’t actually cause you to evolve as a sovereign being and as an essence, but many people find it easy. It is almost like plopping yourself in front of a television (laughter, yeah) in terms of the amount of growth it gives. But that is what many choose in one form or another. And you are choosing to question and to integrate and to grow. And so for them it also raises additional fears for them because they cannot address the actual issue itself because that would be acknowledging the question; it still lets them know that they may have a fox in the hen house. And so of course all the chickens are going crazy
and just so everyone’s in this terrible fright- there is a fox on the inside and a lion circling on the outside and it’s just causing absolute terror and mayhem. Among those who have not wanted to think about and integrate about what is real in terms of their own spiritual process and evolution and thinking, and so it is really creating quite a ruckus.
And so what we would say would be most useful and needed would be for another guru and teacher to come into the situation and perhaps help to listen, to hear, and to teach and to talk and there would need to be a lot of listening and talking and teaching that goes on through the process.
We would say it is an interesting legacy that the last guru left, do you not think? It is an interesting thing to leave and on your way out drop the fox in the hen house.
Leslie: Was it to encourage people to move forward, or did it just happen whimsically or by chance?
O.F.: It is quite the way to stir things up.
Pandu: Well everybody talks about timing you know like it was ‘bad timing’ for me to bring this up and I said well, “I didn’t bring it up, your guru brought it up. He’s the one who set up this whole thing.
Pandu: That was the way I felt about it; I have to act now because he put this issue in front of me just as he was leaving.
Pandu: That was what it seemed like to me.
O.F.: Yes. Yes.
Leslie: And at the same time everybody was seriously worshiping him and it started to spread to us. We were expected to worship him too, I had been respecting him and not really having any problems like getting along with his disciples and stuff… but then I had to think is he a pure devotee, whatever that is, do I think he’s worship-able… and then with this issue happening then Pandu and I have had to turn and be like OK is he beyond question does he have no fault? And so then, “I can find a couple.”
Pandu: It became a challenge almost.
Leslie: Yeah that’s Pandu thing, he does that.
O.F.: We would say that you know it is never really appropriate for one human being to worship another, because that sense of worship and that sense of devotion belongs to creation itself, and belongs to whether you think of the God or the Goddess itself or the Spirit…behind all things and all beings; and to place all of that onto any image is to miss the much greater source.
It’s easier and it’s simpler and it’s sort of child like. But it’s not the grown-up sort of understanding of their being an energy of creation that is and that runs through all things. And that each individual, each manifestation is a focus point of that energy but is not all of that energy so the God or Creation or Spirit is something that each individual, each manifestation of creation, helps to illuminate and bring to a focus point, a unique focus point. But that focus point is not the whole of the godhead and so you are equally a focus point of Creation as much as any other focus point of Creation. And when one focus point worships another it’s a bit like one microscope focus beam worshipping another microscope focusing beam; you are missing the fact that there is this whole creation that is so much more that you are both expressions of and that you are both part of but you are not the whole of it you are within it and you can learn to experience the whole but you are not it; it is you. And so that is where
it becomes a child-like process to worship.
It is again a kind of relinquishment of sovereignty and a bit of the relinquishment of the responsibility to evolve along your own path toward an ever greater expression of your essence in creation and an ever greater communion with creation and experiencing and expressing that in and through your own life so that honoring is very appropriate, respect is very appropriate, admiration even awe is appropriate; but worshipping, worshipping really rather crosses that line.
Even in terms of creation and as we are there is a sense we would apply that word “worshipping” quite differently than you would apply it terms of your spiritual tradition. There is a sense of worshipping but it is not in a sense of that we feel ourselves to be less that anything but rather it is more a sense of immense joy and gratitude to be – to know that we exist and are within creation. It is a sense of great joy and beauty and almost a sense of revelry but it is in no way of bowing down, but it is an acknowledgement of being part of something and of something that nourishes and feeds and that we wish to nourish and feed and contribute to as well.
Does that make sense?
Pandu and Leslie: Yes
O.F.: So, in terms of their wanting you to worship another that becomes a bit dicey.
Pandu: It didn’t seem right to be forced to.
Leslie: No, I know that.
O.F.: No. No we would say not; indeed that is true.
Leslie: Now you were talking about this predator prey. I suppose this is something ISKCON-wide especially when it applies to the child abuse that has been so widespread especially in the past that their not getting over completely, but in respect to this Gita-nagari community in particular with Bhakti-Tirtha’s disciples is it a bigger problem there? There are a lot of people from Africa there; I don’t know very much about that if that, it came to mind I don’t know but I was just wondering.
O.F.: We would say that the difference is that within some other cultures of your world there is a sense of openness about this. It is not identified as abuse it is just considered this is ‘what is’ and in your culture it is identified as abuse but it still goes on to very high degree. It is just that it is put into secret hiding dark places and so it is very much rampant around your world and in your culture. In some sense it has taken on some other forms that seem to be less toxic, less directly towards woman and children in that you have your pictures and movies and those kinds of things but the energetics, the mental and emotional and physical energetics remains the same and the belief system remains the same and so that really sort of the fuel to the engine that keeps it going.
But there are other cultures where this kind of abuse is just accepted as sort of an ‘always has been always will be’ also some other cultures where a sort of dominance of the male is much more accepted and that dominance includes the use of children, particularly female children, as however a man might wish and that is simply viewed as part of his right rather than as being something wrong.
The actual energetic of the belief system is strong all around the globe. It is no stronger in one place than another it just manifests differently and it is that belief that has to be transformed because that energetic continues to empower the belief and all the manifestations throughout your world. So, it is the belief that ultimately has to be transformed.
In your community that a guru might be able to come and to listen, and perhaps to teach, and perhaps to say that there is the act of mercy of allowing any being a chance to better themselves, a chance to work toward their own evolution; because any being may have a very great flaw, what you would consider a very great flaw, and as they work to better themselves to evolve there come to be points where there may be a crisis or there may be that it is like a dislodging of something energetically and in the spirit that can finally be healed.
Sometimes what happens is that a man such as the one who was invited to come to your temple and serve; it could be that his spirit would in a sense become so split between this belief that he has so deeply entrenched that he has acted upon, and then his desire to evolve, that it would create a crisis within him, even a physical crisis that would then help to bring about and facilitate a cleansing and a healing within him that might allow him to emerge in another life without this strong tendency to repeat this pattern. It can also be that sometimes through enough intent/. What we would see about the man who was invited to your temple is that he has not acknowledged the patterns in him that has not acknowledged because he still-
Pandu: That is what he tells everybody.
O.F.: He still has the belief that he has the right, that what he did was right, and it was all right.
Leslie: That makes him seem more dangerous.
O.F.: Yes, it does and that is why we see him being more likely to have at some point, if he continues on a spiritual evolving path, he would most likely have some kind of a crisis point because, the tension. You can imagine what you have experienced what you have done in your own practices, and you have worked with your own practices, you have experienced the little crisis that come up in your own consciousness where you realize like, ‘I have to balance something, I have to heal something’ and you have experienced how that process works. So, imagine you had something that was so confused within you, as this belief this man carries, and you go on to practice and to evolve in some ways while keeping stuck in the very negative confused place in yourself. Imagine the crisis that can create, a mental and physical breakdown. That can have a purpose in the spiritual realm in that it can crack apart a personality and the parts of the soul that have become so sort of ossified in dark places in mistaken understanding, they can begin to be broken up and sort of re-stirred so that in a new life he could return and not be so pulled in those directions, those confused directions.
But another person who might come have come into your community who had perhaps made these same mistakes in the past and recognized that this was not good, and that this was a sickness in a sense, and that it was a great confusion, might still be struggling with it, might still be feeling some of those types of feelings and tendencies. Just as someone who has quit smoking cigarettes might still have the urge years later but continues to recognize that they do not want to do that because it is not healthy. This person who recognizes that this is not a good thing, that this is an unhealthy thing, then their spirit and their essence are much more supported on the healing path, on the path of positive evolution, so that what happens to them would be more of an ongoing release of those old feelings, perhaps a de-tox event, some thing that you have experienced come up very powerfully for a time and then release, but would be able to be in that process so that these old patterns these old energetics would release much more peacefully without having to have a crisis and sort of a cracking up, a cracking apart.
But this man who was brought into your circle, we see him as being more of the first type. He is still in denial about what he has done and the harm it has caused and still has a sense of entitlement, a sense of ‘having the right’ to be as he is and not a sense of humility, or seeking his own forgiveness, because he has not recognized that there is a need for that. That is where, you know, it is perfectly worthwhile and understandable for you to raise the question of why the guru would bring someone in who might be of danger to the community.
It is interesting that the guru chose to leave without ever addressing these kinds of questions, but we do not see him as really able to do so during the last couple months of his life. Because part of the answer would have been that these people are always among you it’s just that you do not know most of the time. And so then what does the community do when the community knows? Because what the community does when it knows it aught to be also doing when it doesn’t know. There needs to a kind of compassion for the community, for a valuing of the children, and a taking care and protection of the children. And a, yes, a kind of compassion for those who have made mistakes, but also what you would call a kind of boundaries and tough love. If people can not recognize their mistakes they have to be boundaried by others because they will not boundary themselves. And those who have recognized their mistakes still must also be supported in walking that healing path and yet also have their own boundaries reinforced by awareness within the community.
So we would say that the mistake that the former guru made was that he brought this person into your community without really any teaching happening in association with this person present. And so there needs to be another guru who comes in who can facilitate the conversation and present some teaching and then the community needs to evolve into setting these kinds of boundaries. Because what the community is doing now is what your culture around the world does: It simply pretends it doesn’t exist and it goes on existing.
Leslie: They all deny that he did it.
Pandu: They just believe him. He said he didn’t do it and they believe him. But We’ve studied the reports, the interviews and the analysis and all that stuff and we – I had no doubt in my mind and so they say, “Why don’t you just ask him?” and it’s like well/
Leslie: We’ve already heard what he said to others, and through the papers we’ve read.
O.F.: And you know, people who are doing things that they are ashamed of, do they tell the truth about them? That’s really a silly thing to just ask. Well, would you tell the truth if you were doing this? Lying is part of the whole picture, and so it is unlikely that he would sort of fess up to you when he’s telling everyone else something different. (yeah, yeah) As with and you know these types of people very much find communities in which to hide and in within which to have access to more victims. That is often the kind of community they find, is one where there is unquestioned obedience to an authority. And then if they can find their way into an authority position or into an acknowledgement by an authority, then they have a way of not being questioned, and it also allows them access to more children. And that is very disturbing. But it is very much part of their process and his process.
We would say part of what happened with the previous guru as we are seeing it is that his mind grew very confused in the last few months of his life, particularly the last two or three months he was very/ his mind was very disjointed in a sense and he was not at all thinking clearly and he lost a lot of his inner authority. But even over several months before that there was a/ Did he have some kind of cancer?
Leslie: Yeah, melanoma, and it got into his lyph nodes, his bones breaking, his foot amputated.
O.F.: Yes because it is though sort of, there is a sense of an eating out from within and that process created a lot of pain also and a lot of physical toxicity in his system and also energetic toxicity and it is almost as though his connection of his consciousness to his body got eaten up as well, sort of filled with holes. So he wasn’t making connections well, he was not thinking clearly. He was not reasoning things through and processing things through his reasoning. He was still a human being.
We would say too that/
[End of tape side 1]
OF: You know we have spoken with you before about in other lifetimes you were very evolved in and involved with your spiritual paths and that was very important to you, and you actually had to be pulled out of that and put into the thick of it again.
And in order to gain a fuller perspective, a fuller evolution, to your own essence and your own evolvement through this particular art form of being human, of humanity.
We would say that this guru who died is meeting a similar transition. He has become too good in too narrow a path and he has been missing something. He has been missing some of the actual lessons. He needs to get re-rooted again into this experience of what it is. Your spiritual traditions are very wonderful, but when humans go through several lifetimes within one spiritual tradition, they begin to believe sometimes that that tradition is what it is to be human; and it’s not.
No given human spiritual tradition or no given human culture is what it means to be human. The process of evolving as human beings is to experience and awe, and from that sort of cull out and realize what it is it all has in common and turn that into a beautiful crystalline being that is creation in your essence through being human.
So this guru who left, he was very tired. His spirit was getting very tired for two or three years. He was getting sick for a long time. We see him as getting sick for/ we see the cancer actually started in him up to 7 years before he died. And for two or three years before he died, it was, he was dealing with a lot of fatigue and a lot of toxicity and symptoms and these kinds of things. And within the last year of his life there was a great deal of pain, and sort of eating away at his own energetics, and his ability to reason, and it was during this time that this man was passed onto him.
And we would say it was not an entirely responsible act to pass this man along your guru, because he was known to be what he is, and unhealed; and yet he was sent to your guru, in a sense [indistinct] but also to get rid of the man himself from another location.
It was a bit like/ we recognize in The Woman’s mind that there is a problem within the Catholic Church as well, passing along priests who are doing these kinds of things; and just sending them someplace new when they get too troublesome in one spot. And we would say this is similar to what happened with this man being sent to the guru of your temple.
We do not think the guru of your temple entirely understood what he was getting, and as much as he did understand it was more than he could deal with at that time. He had gotten too sick by the time this man arrived to be able to participate in the balancing of the energies and providing the teachings necessary. So it’s not so much his fault as he was in a sense used himself. Does that make sense?
Pandu & Leslie: Yeah; Yeah that helps.
Pandu: Well, Ok. Yeah, that answers quite a lot of stuff actually. So I was thinking of switching gears a little bit, because this guru that we’ve been talking about, he had, he was a follower of someone/ Years ago, I guess it was about seven years ago, we lived at this other Hare Krishna farm community/
Leslie: Yeah, we’ve talked about that.
Pandu: And there was a leader there who was very very powerful, and seemed quite corrupt to us; and he went to prison for eight years, and he’s recently been released. And he’s making his way back in.
Leslie: He seems to represent all the bad things we’ve been talking about. Kirtanananda.
Pandu: So we’re kind of worried about him, what kind of influence he may have over people. Because he seems to have a very slick tongue. I don’t know how he does it; I’ve never spoken to him or heard anything he said, but he seems to be able to persuade people. And he’s, back in the 1980’s he turned this organization into a place where murders were being done, and women were being prostituted, and all kinds of abuses, and torture, and the most heinous things. I would never expect in a place that I thought was a spiritual society, but he managed to do that. And so, he got out of prison, and he’s friends with some of the leaders of this movement.
Leslie: Especially I wonder about Radhanatha Swami.
Pandu: So, we’re kind of nervous about what kind of impact he may have and how we should deal with that.
Leslie: I think I don’t want any part of it.
Pandu: It would be hard to not have any part.
OF: Well, we would say that in any environment and organization there is always room for those who have very smooth tongues, who are very good with words, who are very charming and convincing, those who can show one face to one person and another to another; and have them both together in front and each sees the face that they have been shown and doesn’t know that the other is being shown a different face. It is an amazing ability at throwing up mirrors, smoke and mirrors you might call it. But this also requires the acquiescence of those who are going along the process, and it is a/ We would say in part that the tradition you are in is a bit more vulnerable perhaps to these sorts of people because there is such a tradition of absolute authority by those who are considered teachers and gurus of, as you say, a sort of the unquestioning. Although in the more traditional countries, there is a bit more of a questioning that does happen between student and teacher. It is not well understood in this country, and yet there is more of a dialogue, and that is meant to happen.
But with that sort of style in place of much greater authority granted, and less questioning, it definitely leaves open a place for those who come in and in a sense sort of charm their way in. In terms of their, his connection with other leaders, well we would say that one of the necessities of any tradition, any organization, or any family, there is a need for sort of self-policing; there is a need within, if you have a tribe then there is a need that there be certain agreements about behaviors and cooperation, and there is a way then that the tribe enforces that. It is not necessarily by [indistinct] / but there are means by which each member is expected to participate. And so that is also needed within any organization or any religious tradition, and when that does not happen, there comes to be patterns and practices that become sort-of overtly problematic. And that is really what you are concerned about and witnessing within your tradition is those areas where there are perhaps sort of inadequate policing as it were and a lack of agreements about what constitutes the expected behavior from all members of the tribe. And that everyone, the highest to the lowest, so to speak, are expected to honor and obey, and there is some of that kind of setting of expectations that is missing to some degree within your faith’s tradition, and so that is where your concern lies.
We would say for yourselves, it is most important simply to stay awake and observe and be honest about what you see and what your concerns are, to speak to your own teacher about your concerns, and to continue to be as you are, one to ask intelligent, meaningful questions, because any faith tradition should be able to uphold itself in the face of the questions of those who are participating in it. That is a very important part of the process within any spiritual tradition. It is a vital part to your own evolution, and to have in this tradition be a tool for your own evolution, because that is part of the expanding and deepening of your sovereignty, that integration process. Does that makes sense?
OF: So we are not saying it is going to be easy.
Pandu and Leslie: (Laughter)
OF: We cannot sort-of make it better, or make it easier; but we hope to give you some support and guidance as you move through it and in it.
Pandu: What about my public writing? I’ve been writing, making observations, and my feelings, and sharing that publicly with whoever comes looking for it. Is that, I don’t know if that’s too much of a disturbance, if that’s good. I’ve always thought of it as kind of helping to educate people who may be kind-of not sure of what to expect or, I’ve always thought it was kind-of valuable. I know I could have used seeing something like that but I know it’s a bit of a disturbance too.
OF: Have you discussed this with your teacher? and see what/
Leslie: He does not like it.
OF: He does not like it?
Leslie: No. He doesn’t like it because people complained about it to him.
OF: And has he himself read it?
Leslie: I don’t think so.
Pandu: Yeah, I don’t really know.
OF: We would say it is not a fair thing to suggest to put a stop to something that one has not investigated oneself, just because others are complaining about it. That’s sort of a bit like one child saying, “Johnny stole my cookie,” and then you go into the bedroom and discover it in the first child’s dresser drawer. “Well how has Johnny stolen it from you if it’s still in your dresser drawer?” He cannot then turn to Sally and automatically say “Why did you steal Johnny’s cookie?” because she didn’t. And so you have to investigate it yourself. It is not alright to just say I don’t want mosquitoes flapping around me so I’m going to tell you to stay in the pool, because I’m irritated by the mosquitoes. It is only fair to investigate the pool yourself, so to speak.
So we would say you might ask him to read this himself, or you could send him excerpts or such, and sort of ask for his feedback and have it be a bit of a dialogue and exploration between you. And but ultimately we would say that you would need to follow your own inner need, but even if you were to sort-of put it down for a time, that keep writing on your own, because there would come a time again when you would feel and say, “I need to put this out to the world, because I feel that that is what is right, and that is what is appropriate, and that is what is important. And so that is my next step, and I’m going to do it.” And so we would say to enter into that dialogue with your teacher, but as a dialogue, not as you asking him to say “yes” or “no,” but rather as a dialogue and an exploration. And you may decide to set it aside for a time, or you may not but no matter what always keep doing the writing, because it’s important for you and to you; and you will always be a time when you will wish to bring it forth again, and come forth with it. You might even at some point decide to put your experiences into a book, in a form that is sort-of an exploration of what a spiritual life has meant to you and brought you and the questions that it has brought and what has emerged out of it for you and all you have learned.
Pandu: We’re still waiting for your book.
OF: Yes, well we are working with the Woman on that. You keep pestering her about it. Yes.
So does that make sense?